Whether you add tradelines to a social security number or a credit profile number is a heavily debated topic. If you thought about purchasing or have purchased a credit profile number (CPN), you need to read this page. The same goes if you have no clue what I am talking about right now. Congress recently passed a law making this illegal. Here’s a quote from the press:
In a rather strange shift of priorities from economics, foreign war, health-care and the like, today the Senate passed a bill, S.B. 497, which was subsequently signed into law by President Barack Obama. The bill puts an end to credit file segregation through credit profile numbers and forces individuals to use only their current social security number for credit and tax purposes. In addition, those who currently possess a credit profile number may face criminal prosecution.
Okay, so that isn’t true. I made it all up. And, you’re probably mad, right? Well, I did it to prove a point and I am, in fact, going to tell you the truth. But let me ask, why aren’t you mad at those lying to you about the existence of credit profile numbers? I am trying to help you with free information, while they want to take your money and set you up for failure simultaneously.
No new law, because it’s already illegal.
Were you concerned and bummed out by the fake news article above? Then let me ask you this: why aren’t you concerned with a lack of text that excites you about CPNs? Meaning, this mythical creature called the Credit Profile Number or CPN, sounds great right? Have you ever noticed that there isn’t one word proving its existence? I challenge you… go find the law that allows you to use a second credit number for individual credit.
You weren’t scammed… the person who “helped” you was clueless.
I think a small percentage of people pushing CPNs are scammers. To fully understand that credit profile numbers are fake takes a bit of time and energy on research. I think the majority of people selling CPNs probably believe the nonsense they regurgitate. For people like this, there is no malicious intent, only negligently passing along incorrect information.
I want you to click play on the video clip below. If you find this gentleman authoritative, then there’s nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. I encourage you to read the comments section of this post for the arguments for and against CPNs.
What’s worse than this video and the horrible information in it, is that of the comments below it where people ask for his contact information. Are we that gone as a society? Do we not recognize that this man is obviously misinformed? SIDE NOTE: If he’s smart enough to dig through the CPN craziness, he’s smart enough to be productive in another field. Let’s wish him luck.
CPNs are illegal and they’ve always been illegal.
A comment below, posted by Brandon, provides:
If CPN were legal, why would bankruptcy, and credit consolidation exist?
This is an excellent point. You’ve noticed that I have skipped over the obvious “ineffective” portion of my credit profile tirade? I’m just going for the jugular… they’re illegal. I figured without the possibility of going to jail, people might say “Eh… might as well try it.”. So, skipping the fact that CPNs don’t work in the first place, I’ll move on to the fact that they are illegal and the FTC has been charging people since 1999. Okay, so this article excerpt is real and you can click on the link in the previous sentence to see it:
The defendants used the Internet and other media to claim they could help consumers obtain new credit histories by obtaining new identification numbers through a practice known as file segregation. The firms sold instructions about how consumers could substitute federally-issued, nine-digit employee identification numbers or taxpayer identification numbers for social security numbers and use them illegally to build new credit profiles that would allow them to get credit they may be denied based on their real credit histories. Many of their ads claimed the practice was legal.
Down from my soapbox, but please listen.
This was a harsh post about a ridiculous topic. We, at Superior Tradelines, are frustrated with CPNs, because we have to talk people down from it constantly. The CPN nonsense is poisoning your brain and your chance of credit success. The bottom line is that credit profile numbers have never been an option for credit enhancement… ever. And, they are not an option today. Please stay away from CPNs for your sake. In addition to this process NOT working, you may end up as a respondent on a Federal Trade Commission complaint or a defendant on a Department of Justice indictment. Or, you will just waste a lot of money and get nothing in return.
If you want a legal opinion about CPNs, you need to read the post “The Credit Profile Number Scam” by Attorney Mark Bennett, who has many years of experience in criminal defense and argued before the Supreme Court of Texas.
If nothing so far has convinced you, ask yourself this: Why would Superior Tradelines sabotage themselves with this post when they could make a lot of money selling CPNs? Further, if you’re not convinced and think you have a good argument for CPNs, let us know in the comments below!
124 thoughts on “New Law Stops Credit Profile Numbers”
Hi, I am a female. I have been cyber/physically stalked for 10 and 1/2 years by an ex who was in the Navy Special Forces. He tracked me through my SSN. FBI and local police did nothing to help me. Our government wouldn’t put me in the Witness Program. Currently through the advise of a international security advisor I put myself in my own Witness Program. Following the same rules.
I use a CPN number. It has kept me safe for one and half years. I don’t use it for government purposes. I use it for banking, credit cards, renting my apartment and purchasing my car. (I read you think this is illegal because using a CPN number is illegal)
My old world consisted of passwords consistently changed on my devices because he hacked into them – locking me out. Or reading txts on my phone I didn’t write or others getting txts I didn’t write. I’m a writer. In 2013 he erased all my writings in Microsoft Word. I was consistently terrorized and made to feel like a victim. I wasn’t functioning on a healthy level. Until hacking became mainstream like the Sony attack I didn’t tell people what was going on. It wasn’t something one speaks about.
I choose to be safe then live a life where a psychopath can track me using my social. My security advisor has written books and was high ranking in our Navy for 20 years. He is not concerned I’m breaking the law.
I wanted to share this with you because using a CPN number changed my life and its something you may not have thought of. If other stalking victims are being stalked through their SSN then they need to be advised to obtain a CPN number.
SSN was never designed to be used way it is in today’s society. People are giving out their SSN on forms that don’t need too. For example if I see a doctor and I’m paying cash or using a CC they don’t need my social but people blindly give away their identity.
I think a better subject then attacking CPN for someone like myself —is waking up our Government —that using our social for almost everything needs to be changed.
If you know of any other way for stalking victims to be safe from stalkers who have their SSN and not use CPN numbers I would be immensely interested in you sharing it.
Hey Phoenix, thanks for the insight. I believe that’s an SSN replacement, ordered by a Judge. I think that is one of a very few limited situations in which you can obtain a second social security number (like witness protection, etc.). I wouldn’t call your situation a CPN. Thanks again!
She didn’t say anything about a social security replacement number lol she said she took matters into her own hands and helped herself after the fbi, local police, and government failed to do so.
If a cpn helped her which it clearly has. So be it. Life is full of calculated risks we take everyday.
Do what you have to people. If you obtain a cpn use it responsibly and pay your debts. Misuse it at your own peril.
What you’re saying is correct: You can break the law and get away with it, but it’s a risk.
I’m sorry, but I just couldn’t stop laughing at that video. Superior, are you telling me people actually buy from this guy? Is this what the world is coming to?
Martha, while we understand your sense of humor was aroused by the video, please note that it is not our intention to poke fun at anyone. That was neither or goal nor intent. We were (are) simply trying to draw a contrast between complex federal laws and those people obviously unqualified to address them.
It’s quite sad actually, but yes. We’ve dealt with thousands and thousands of customers over the years and it never ceases to amaze us the stories these clients come to us with. I often question how someone could believe the crazy stuff out there, but recognize that people can often be tricked in a time of desperation. So, it is our pleasure to help get them back on track.
Here are Superior Tradelines, we don’t work with CPNs, and when clients get ripped off, we actually provide that client options to rectify the situation. Scammers want to operate in the dark, so usually just the threat of exposure gets their money back quickly.
I’m off on a tangent here, but I just wanted to respond to your note.
Nice article, Robbie. Not so sure about the use of the fake quote, but it is an interesting technique.
FYI, the link to the FTC page in “FTC has been charging people since 1999” took me to a “page not found” page at the FTC site.
Thanks! The link is updated. The fake quote was inspired by the “I heard this…” quotes we get everyday. It’s always “good news” about the things people hear about credit profile numbers. It’s always nonsense. So, we wanted to put out some nonsense that was bad news to get their attention. We wouldn’t have done that if we didn’t follow up with the truth, of course. And, the truth is in the corrected link. Thanks for the heads up!
I think you should take a look at this video: [deleted by admin] and maybe go to their website [deleted by admin]
Also check out citation term #35 and #36 at the bottom of this link. It is actually not the CPN (Credit Privacy Number) that is illegal but how you use it. FTC has not been charging people for using CPNs but rather using them to do illegal stuff. If you are using it to have clear credit to clean up your credit from your social security number then yes it is perfectly fine as well as not wanting to reveal your social to anyone out there that is not your employer, etc. then yes it is fine. Just as if you were to use an EIN number to do bad, people will find ways to do the same with a CPN.
Although I do not need one because it has already helped me…I would recommend it to anyone. Not saying to use this company since it is actually a free process but to enlightened you more…I would say dig deeper.
Thanks so much for your comment. I am not going to profess to give a complete answer here, but I should note in passing that what I am about to say is not without sufficient thought, research and third-party expert analysis, including layers. In addition, I am able to show the error of your conclusion with a simple Google search.
First, I edited out the youtube clip and website of those selling CPNs. However, I will note that Curt Flowers (the one in the video you posted) is a pretty sharp guy and he has a wide range understanding about things that escape most of the population (strawman theory, taxation issues, etc.). Unfortunately, I simply cannot promote CPNs, therefore, I had to delete the links.
Second, as to your reference to the FBI report, you should note that the (FBI) author plagiarized the section to which you referenced, namely footnote 35. The date on the page you cite is sometime within the year 2008. So, I simply took the passage and searched it with Google setting a data of before 2008. As you can see within a snapshot of my search below, people have be slinging around this phrase inappropriately for nearly 13 years. That is, the original source of the information you cite is NOT from the FBI, but indeed misinformation from “companies” and website.
Third, setting aside the fact that an FBI agent literally grabbed garbage off the internet, plagiarized it and pasted it in their report with blatant disregard for the law, the question remains: where is the law? Where does it say you can create another number like a CPN or an SCN? Unfortunately, the video I posted above, while a complete mess, is the best case that can be made. I say this because no matter how sophisticated the individual, no one can cite the law… because it doesn’t exist.
Fourth, you said “FTC has not been charging people for using CPNs but rather using them to do illegal stuff.” I think we’re in agreement here, but our agreement necessarily defeats your position, because: as soon as you use the CPN, it’s illegal.
Fifth, you said “If you are using it to have clear credit to clean up your credit from your social security number then yes it is perfectly fine as well as not wanting to reveal your social to anyone out there that is not your employer, etc. then yes it is fine.” Please cite a source (preferably a legal authority… and one not engaged in plagiarizing) for this proposition and we can debate it.
Sixth, you said “Just as if you were to use an EIN number to do bad, people will find ways to do the same with a CPN.” This is slightly a strawman argument, although I agree with it’s general application. Specifically, there is a possibility that you will use your EIN for bad or good. If you use a CPN, it can only be bad, because it’s illegal.
Lastly, we have no animosity toward you and your success. However, people often mistake a lack of prosecution for legality. That is, if I rob a bank at gunpoint but manage to avoid capture and prosecution, was it legal to rob the bank? Alternatively, if you had a CPN and it worked, does that make it legal?
I appreciate your feedback here, and although I vehemently disagree with you and although it is clear you are wrong legally, an open dialog is refreshing and worth the time to engage in.
By all means, regroup, research and come back; let’s readdress this issue anytime. Based on the foregoing, it is clear no evidence or argument exists to support the proposition of a valid use of CPNs.
Robert, you challenge someone to “cite a source(preferably a legal authority…)”. In my book, lawful trumps legal any day, people need to learn the difference. Regardless, the FBI still has that report on their website: https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/mortgage-fraud-2008, with the same footnote, declaring that “Currently, federal law allows individuals to legally use CPNs for financial reporting and protects those individuals who do not wish to disclose their SSAN. Individuals who acquire CPNs are completely responsible for any debt they incur using this number. Acquiring a CPN is supposed to be a free service; therefore, Web sites that offer CPNs for a fee are most likely scammers.” Correct me if I’m wrong, the FBI is in fact the foremost Law Enforcement agency at the Federal level……. I challenge you to cite the law, if it exists, that prohibits the use of a CPN in a manner that helps oneself while harming no one else.
A few years back, someone wrote that same exact thing and I replied:
As far as the FBI, this was also addressed:
The excerpt that you refer to when trying to show that CPN’s are illegal, and that the FTC has been “charging” them since 1999 doesn’t actually refer specifically to CPN’s.
“…how consumers could substitute federally-issued, nine-digit employee identification numbers or taxpayer identification numbers for social security numbers…”
This case and example refers specifically to EINs and TINs, not CPNs.
In addition, the FTC doesn’t have the power to send individuals to jail. They have the right to uphold anti-trust laws, and they do that by filing suits in federal court (civil).
I’m no fan of the scams that people use to push CPNs and credit repair services, but if you are going to write an article with “facts” about the illegality of CPNs, please use and cite relevant information.
The reason they didn’t use the term “CPN” (to your satisfaction) is precisely the same reason for this post: CPNs don’t exist. There’s no such thing as a “CPN”. Instead, they use the term “file segregation” as an umbrella term to encompass every synonym replacement you can think of to refer to the practice of using “CPNs”. To illustrate, please provide me a law, regulation, rule, statute, executive order (should I keep going?), that uses a word, phrase, acronym to imply or actually state “CPN”, “credit profile number”, “credit privacy number” or the like. I would be happy to retract my statements if you can provide such information.
On a side note, the Federal Trade Commission does not enforce anti-trust laws; they’re more of a anti-trust violation “mediator” (trying to broker agreements on potential violations). Any real anti-trust violation is brought by the Department of Justice Anti-Trust Division.
As to the FTC, you’re argument is with them, not me; that is, they used the word “charge”, not me. For example, the link cited within the passage you referred says within it that they “have agreed to settle federal charges that the “file segregation” advice and products violated federal law…” (Emphasis added). Regardless, I don’t think the FTC (or my reference to them) was meant to imply they have arrest powers. On the other hand, tell Kevin Trudeau they can’t put you behind bars. In addition, and since a complaint brought by the FTC is ultimately a complaint within a court of law, you can be held in contempt (which can be colloquially referred to as “behind bars”).
Pursuant to the foregoing, could you please explain where I “cite[d] [ir]relevant” information as well as where I failed to be “fact[ually]” accurate? I look forward to your response.
Thanks for your quick reply. A couple things:
CPNs DO in fact exist; one can apply for one through the IRS in lieu of a social security number. The problem with CPNs is exactly what you stated- file segregation. It is not the act of actually possessing a CPN that is illegal and regulated, it is using a CPN as a way to establish a new credit identity/profile that is illegal, aka file segregation. And the illegality referred to is civil, not criminal.
As to your assertion that the FTC does not uphold anti-trust laws, this is the exact purpose for the creation of the FTC. “When the FTC was created in 1914, its purpose was to prevent unfair methods of competition in commerce as part of the battle to “bust the trusts.” Over the years, Congress passed additional laws giving the agency greater authority to police anticompetitive practices.” http://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc
In addition, it is in fact the FTC that brings lawsuits to federal courts. http://www.ftc.gov/system/files/attachments/quarterly-litigation-status-report/status_3.pdf is a link that shows just how many cases the FTC has brought to court and the status of such in the past quarter alone.
You are the one writing the article with the word “charge”. Just like you gave the FBI no quarter and showed that the work there was plagiarized and not correct, you also should not have tried to use scare mongering, “I’m just going for the jugular… they’re illegal. I figured without the possibility of going to jail, people might say ‘Eh… might as well try it.’ ” The FTC uses the word charges to imply illegal wrongdoing, but those charges only have civil penalties attached to them, not criminal. Kevin Trudeau was found in contempt of court for violating a COURT ORDER on creating infomercials, not any FTC regulations, which is why he was arrested and sentenced to 10 years in prison. FTC didn’t send him anywhere; his violation of a federal court order did. You can be found in contempt in any court situation, civil or criminal, but again, that is due to a violation of federal law and not something specifically from the FTC.
You have great information here, and you don’t need to scare people into believing that CPNs are bad; your real, relevant information does that.
I do not mean this as a slight, but did you read the link you posted? Within it, the usage of the term “CPN” is followed by the term “Fraud” almost every time. So, if you are saying CPNs exist in as far as people segregate their files with new 9 digit numbers, then I agree with you. However, there’s no form to apply for a “CPN”. On the same line of reasoning, you could suggest robbing a bank is legal because people do it.
Please recognize that there is a difference between flowery language on their own website and the actual day to day functions of their organization. “trust busters” refers to the days of the robber barons, not the actual anti-trust legislation signed into law decades later. True enforcement (with respect to anti-trust laws) comes from the DOJ. Despite their flowery language, they admit their shortcomings indirectly when they outlined their “enforcement authority” in appendix B here.The bottom line, any real, nonadministrative, enforcement is conducted by the Department of Justice.
Lawsuits to Federal Courts:
I don’t see a disagreement here, which is consistent with my assertions through this entire webpage.
The word “Charge” and going to “Jail”:
I don’t think you read the link to which I referred. Please read above, wherein I quoted the press release from the Federal Trade Commission website and their use of the word “charge”. I don’t understand the critique you’re trying to make here. As far as the legality of CPNs, your link here is a perfect example; that is, it amounts to “Fraud” ← Fraud is illegal. The fact that the “wrongdoers” escaped criminal penalties does not mean there weren’t criminal violations. That is a logical fallacy. Indeed, it is the primes of the Federal Trade Commission to resolve issues with the most expedited processes. Accordingly, “…the agency may attempt to obtain voluntary compliance by entering into a consent order with the company [in voilation]”. In the event this is unsuccessful, the “FTC partners with the U.S. Department of Justice, U.S. Attorneys and other federal and state criminal law enforcers to stop consumer fraud”, which includes mortgage fruad (such as obtaining a mortgage with a CPN), by the way.
Which agency was pursuing him that resulted in him going to jail? Were it not for the FTC and their action, would Kevin Trudeau be in jail?
I don’t see anything scary. In so far as you break the law (and get prosecuted and convicted), you go to jail. It’s simply factual. Although, I agree with you jail is scary. As to the balance of your comment, I appreciate the compliment.
Did YOU actually read the link that Jess supplied re: CPNs? I’m going to have to assume the answer is no, or you would have clearly seen the second paragraph “What is a CPN?” which does not use the word fraud once. In fact it reads as follows:
“The CPN is a nine-digit identification number that looks like a social security number (SSN) and may be used in lieu of an SSN, for such purposes as obtaining credit.
One has the legal right to keep his/her SSN private. In certain circumstances, consumers are required by law to disclose their SSN, such as to the Internal Revenue Service, employers, when registering a motor vehicle, buying a firearm, or applying for a federally insured loan. In other circumstances, federal law allows consumers to legally use a separate identification number, hence the opportunity to establish a CPN for a credit file.
CPNs are commonly used by celebrities, members of Congress, and witnesses protected by the federal government to help protect their privacy and security.”
So, are you asserting that members of Congress are fraudulently using CPNs? Or is FreddiMac in on the CPN scam?
Yes, I intentionally omitted the part where the source you cite plagiarized nonsense.
As to the balance of your comments, please cite the law that allegedly stands for the proposition you assert. In the absence of such legal authority, my position remains correct.
Finally, I would encourage your to recognize the distinction between researching and presenting relevant material and copying and pasting erroneous excerpts.
So what is your service? is any of your credit repair guareenteed?
If you look up the godaddy whois on those websites you say the FBI plagiarized, they were created after the FBI post.
First, that is untrue. Second, the only way I could show you that is by exposing those nonsense domains on this site. So, please email at email@example.com and “show” me what you think is correct. If it is correct, I will update this entire page. If it is incorrect, would you denounce CPNs publicly on this site?
Just for the sake of clarity, is what these people are referring to as a CPN actually just an EIN that they are encouraging people to use fraudulently?
It’s a good question, because I don’t think even those selling CPNs know what they are talking about. There are a few different ways these numbers come into existence. 1) Just file for a new social (sometimes it works) 2) File for an EIN and use it as a SSN. 3) “Take over” a SSN of a deceased person, a prisoner or a child. 4) Create a fake number out of the thing air and build a profile with it.
As you can see, I didn’t say “apply for a CPN”, since they don’t really exist.
So, yes, what you’ve described is one way to “create” a CPN.
Translation from article: buy only my product
That’s poor translation considering we don’t sell CPNs. I am open to legitimate constructive criticism, however.
No, you’re definately not open to being criticized, constructive or otherwise. This article and your responses read as condescending and a “know it all” who couldn’t possibly be wrong.
Robbie, to be frank, I get the overwhelming feeling that you’d argue with a wall if you thought your intelligence was being questioned.
For the love of baby Jesus … I know, I’m wrong and you’re right.
I am sorry you feel that way, but this isn’t about me. This is about people – desperate people – being mislead by things that will ultimately hurt them worse than they are already hurt by an imperfect credit system. If I have to come across in an unpleasing way, I will do it with pride. At the end of the day, you cannot read this article (or it’s “condescending” comments) and walk comfortably toward a CPN. If I lose clients (like you, potentially), but save 100 times more from hurting themselves, credit wise, I will gladly go out of business for it. The entire article (and comment section) is designed to engage and force people to be clear about things that might otherwise escape them (and hurt them).
so how is purchasing tradelines that you did not apply for and pay on time to enhance your credit report legal?
Search google for a PDF titled “Credit Where None Is Due”. Read that for the answer to your question. See also Fed Red B and the ECOA.
Oh this is good stuff!!!
Do u offer credit repair services? And if so how can u be contacted for help?
We do not. However, we are partnering with a company as we speak. The company is about to launch a very innovative product. I will email you personally once they launch.
I love reading all of the information you provide, as your company is the only one I trust on these subjects.
Would you please email me the credit correction contact info once you have it?
I am interested in obtaining tradelines but need to do some cleanup first.
Thanks. You should have the contact information already.
Hey Robert do you have any idea as to why the government hasn’t made notice of this obviously growing problem; Or give people some clarity on this easy to confuse topic ( as seen here on this forum). Reading this has given me great clarity. The one glaring point you made and was the same question I’ve been asking, if its so legal where is the “official” application for this. That FBI post was the closes thing to having some clarity until you made your very clear argument on the plagiarize content witch further confuses the situation as they are a very trusted source of information. A search of cpn/scn on the IRS website gives 0 results. I’ve done research for about a year on this subject constantly going in the same circle of information until that FBI post. Witch did little to help clarify anything . What I’ve came to is the same thing you’ve been known, they where created out of thin air. There is no way that something so legitimate can be so difficult to get accurate information on. My logic says there is a problem and should be avoided unless your a risk taker. I believe its been a missed loophole or a crime that doesn’t necessarily have a law for so long that its almost not illegal.
Given the government’s notorious inefficiency, a problem like this would take a very long time for them to address and remedy. I did read, recently, of a report that found a group 6 million social security cards are being used actively. Of that group, all 6 million people were dead and still using their social security cards. So, as this problem grows like an out-of-control virus, I suspect the government may step in and do something. This happens when 1) it makes government look bad 2) hurts enough people or 3) threatens the financial community. So, until we reach some or all of those thresholds, I don’t anticipate any swift government intervention.
would like to know more about CPN and Tradelines
Please read the article above.
So if an individual uses a CPN to obtain a fresh start, acquires a great amount of new credit (along with a high credit score), keeps all their accounts in good standing, and continues to use the same CPN for almost 3 years, how are you supposed to tell those individuals they did a bad thing by trying to start over using a CPN? Especially if they have NEVER been approached by FBI, FTC, or any authoritive organizations, about any wrong doing. Now, I know anyone who’s done their research will find plenty of individuals with this same scenario. Let’s keep it real. CPNs exist. Some individuals are currently using them right now. Those particular individuals are not committing any crimes. It would be good to speak about this subject, with this type of knowledge in mind. Reveal all the variables, not just the ones you want. You come across as honest when you approach it that way.
Fred, based on your principle, it is legal to rob a bank so long as you are not caught.
No it’s legal to rob a bank as long as NO ONE is being prosecuted.. you’re saying I will go to jail for applying for a credit card with cpn. I think not.
No he’s saying it’s ok to rob a bank as long as NO ONE is being prosecuted.. you’re saying I will go to jail for applying for a credit card with cpn. I think not.
I agree with your first sentence, except that people are being prosecuted. Go to the doj website, search for press releases concerning synthetic identities.
I am not saying you will go to jail for applying for credit with a cpn where a bank asks for your ssn, I’m saying you are breaking the law if you apply for credit with a cpn where a bank asks for your ssn. Whether you go to jail is a different question and topic.
No. Based on his princicple, it’s legal to buy a gun as long as it is used for self defense and not murder.
Putting a CPN when a bank asks for your SSN is bank fraud (or, to continue your analogy, murder).
Freddie Mac publishes literature regarding CPN numbers and states themselves the uses that are not considered illegal or fraudulent as well as the ones that are. can you explain this if CPN numbers are illegal regardless of what they are used for?
I think you are misreading freddiemac’s website. Second, freddiemac does not create or enforce laws. But, as said multiple times on this site, Robert Feldt, a Special Agent-in-Charge of the Social Security Administration (SSA) Office of the Inspector General’s (OIG) Dallas Field Division (FD) said “Despite what many of these credit repair Websites imply, consumers should know that CPNs are not legal.” (See source above).
You’re coming off as an idiot. You can’t omit information at your leisure to try and make your somewhat weak points more valid.
Well, that wasn’t very nice. Emotions aside, would you trust Robert Feldt? He is the Special Agent-in-Charge of the Social Security Administration (SSA) Office of the Inspector General’s (OIG) Dallas Field Division (FD) and said “Despite what many of these credit repair Websites imply, consumers should know that CPNs are not legal.” (See source above).
Found This article that addresses CPNs. Turns out ‘credit privacy number’ is fine but these advertised CPNs are not legal. This article is four years old. From other things I’ve read, I can call the SSA to get a credit privacy number, but I need a lawyer to properly set it up to ensure no fraud.
You cannot get anything of the kind, because none of the following exist: Credit Profile Number, Credit Protection Number, Credit Privacy Number, etc. You can call and get a “social security number replacement” and, I suppose, you can call it a “CPN”, but it is actually a social security number replacement. For example, and according to your article, millions of people (including hundreds of thousands of children) ask for social security number replacements after someone else used their original social security number as a “CPN”.
I think your source was great, but supports our position. That is:
What gets me the most about the people who are trying to argue that, “Using a CPN to obtain credit and then paying the bills on time is not is not wrong.” is that they gloss over the fact that the perpetrator now shrugs off the responsibility for all of the bad debt that they had previously acquired. With no incentive to pay what they owe it becomes akin to stealing. Actually, it is EXACTLY stealing. I sincerely hope that this seedy practice is squashed. If you want to fix your credit than obtain a secured card and PAY YOUR BILLS!
Right on, Phil, right on…
Enough alteady…..What’s the BEST place to get one without getting scammed?
I would refer you to the article about the comment on which you’ve posted. Please read/re-read.
I realize Robert, that there are indeed 2 sides to every story. I don’t advocate a CPN however, as a person that uses tradelines, buying and selling them, we can’t really say that there is a 100% ethical intent when speaking of actual tradelines. While not “segregating” credit files, the act of simply utilizing YOUR great credit that was granted to YOU with intent to deceive creditors in believing that all of your credit card file data including: high limits, responsible payment history, low balances and longevity that YOU have earned are somehow actually MINE simply because I paid you to add me to your credit when you don’t even know me, I don’t know you, and it was a transaction based strictly on financial gain for you and to obtain credit for ME that otherwise wouldn’t have been granted without adding me as an A.U. is in itself “not illegal” according to state or federal laws. However using your same argument, if your son goes to Harvard and got in by using “tradelines” or copied versions of the test scores, grades, and school records of my son because you were able to get the schools to post them onto your son’s transcripts doesn’t make it illegal by law, yet from an ethics perspective and actually earning the grades and the scholarship, it doesn’t make it any more right than borrowing your great credit to add to my less than stellar scores so that I can get what I want in exchange for cash.
#HighHorse So, the “just because it’s not illegal, doesn’t make it legal” really has 2 sides and you are smart enough to know what I’m saying here. Tradelines are a loophole. We all use them in this industry. It’s how you feed your family so of course, you are an advocate. So, it’s probably best to just stick with the “we don’t advocate or sell or recommend a CPN” than to need to keep defending your stance by pointing to quotes because as you know, there are many quotes from those in major banks and those that underwrite FHA loans that would tell YOU that use of tradelines in the way that we all use them is not currently illegal but is unethical and has intent to paint a picture of someone’s credit that is not accurate or based on their actual earned scores rather paid for scores in order to meet some criteria could be deemed fraud or perjury if you took those definitions and held them to the letter of the law. It’s no different than lying on an application for a federal loan except that you didn’t verbally tell a person that the credit belongs to you, we simply pay to post that excellent credit onto the reports of another in order to gain financially and I guess it’s “not illegal” but also using your analogy, just because it’s not illegal, doesn’t naturally make it legal. It’s not illegal to cheat on your wife either but it’s certainly going be frowned upon when she finds out! lol
First please not that the tone of this post and comments section is designed for traffic, specifically targeting those who may fall victim to scams known as “CPNs.” So, I come off a little frustrated because people are picking fights with reality and taking it out on me. I am trying to defend reality so that people don’t get harmed. This is the only reason I go on and on with this comments.
First: Tradelines are not “not illegal,” they’re legal (look up converse, inverse and contrapositive for the logic error). Literally, the FTC said “tradelines are legal.” Here’s a video we shot on the legality of tradelines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6J96KYZX4Y
Second: Because your premise is flawed, I’m going to respectfully skip over the Harvard analogy based on it (noting in passing that there isn’t a Federal Reserve Regulation B or Equal Opportunity Credit Act of 1974 which applies to grades).
Third: Your concern with how I feed my family is none of your business, nor is it relevant. I have multiple business, none of which have anything to do with tradelines. According to your logic, anyone in any industry that does NOT sell CPNs cannot tell the truth about CPNs since the make money through service other than CPNs, right?
Fourth: Tradelines are not a loophole… its the law. If you meant to say an unintended consequence, then I’d agree with you. Nevertheless, there is a law for tradelines, there is not a law for CPNs.
Fifth: Anyone complaining of tradelines in the way you’ve described are not educated on lending. There are underwriting procedures far and above credit scores for which tradelines cannot be used to create an “intent to paint a picture.” Saying you’re someone else through the use of a CPN is, actually, fraud.
Sixth: It is not the same as “lying on an application for a federal loan except that you didn’t verbally tell a person that the credit belongs to you.” In fact, authorized user tradelines are label “AU” or “authorized user.” However, the use of a CPN is exactly the same as “lying on an application for a federal loan except that you didn’t verbally tell a person that the credit belongs to you.”
Lastly: You are correct that there are laws which apply to CPNs and there are not criminal laws (that I know of) which apply to infidelity.
If you’re just having fun with credit related banner, that’s fine. However, if there’s even a sliver of confidence in you that I am right… shouldn’t we be screaming from the rooftops so as to prevent people from being harmed?
This is so funny! Everyone knows that “this doesn’t feel right” feeling if they are obtaining a so called CPN and later saying they didn’t know it was wrong to use in place of their true SSN. They know it’s on the down low and choose to ignore their gut. And later whine that they were victimized!
I am a private landlord who diligently screens tenants forwards and backwards, til the cows come home. It is NOT difficult to go back a few years and validate anyone’s information. If background data doesn’t add up, a landlord can decline renting!
Thank you for enlightening us more on this topic.
Thanks so much for your contribution to this serious matter!
I thought filing bankruptcy was a fresh start. Now people are using a different number to obtain credit? How can you anyone say this is a fresh start when you still have bad credit on your ssn? Piggy backing off of someone else’s credit history doesn’t mean you have good history. It means you were irresponsible to pay your bills on time, or period to keep your credit good. If CPN were legal, why would bankruptcy, and credit consolidation exist as well as other credit repair services? So I guess when you screw up you don’t have to be held responsible. Wake up people!
Wow, I didn’t see this comment until just now. I’m going to feature it in the post!
“If CPN were legal, why would bankruptcy, and credit consolidation exist”
Well, there is a difference between Illegal and Unlawful. Since there is no “law” saying not to use them, then “Everything which is not forbidden is allowed” principle comes in(do a quick google search on that). You must know the difference between UNLAWFUL and ILLEGAL. Illegal is where one does something UNLAWFUL and Commits a crime(by breaking an established law). Since there is no established law prohibiting using cpn’s they are unlawful, NOT ILLEGAL. Now if one does something “unlawful” and breaks an established law, they are committing an ILLEGAL act. But since a CPN by itself and used properly(meaning not being used to break established law), it is not ILLEGAL as you claim. That is why we must know ALL THE FACTS, and be educated on this difference, because one step toward a improper use(which scammers direct people to)you will be committing a crime, an illegal act. But to work within the Law, not breaking any established law, shouldn’t be discouraged from. That in itself is keeping the people dumb and uneducated. And it is because WE are uneducated. And it shouldn’t be the Blind leading the Blind. And if we KNOW this, and continue to dumb the people down, I’ll have to consider your agenda and purpose. Because there is a organized movement stemming from Rome, keeping the people from working within their rights and within the law. That is why it is HIGHLY recommended by this system that all must stay within what they recommend. We are not encouraged to become educated about the law. And we are told by the ones leading the people(like these scam artists) that educating yourself is the worst thing possible, since “THEY” know what is best for you. Like I stated before it is the Blind leading the Blind, and even worse, like sheep led to the slaughter.
The point is, something UNLAWFUL is NOT something ILLEGAL, that is what many are here trying to explain, but are shut down because they actually know something about the difference. WE SHOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!
I wouldn’t recommend following the advise giving here, since it does discourage the PROPER use of a CPN, and the IMPROPER explanation of what is ILLEGAL. Maybe that is its purpose, to derail the further education of ones self, and toward another’s opinion(lacking). That is what is wrong with a lot of sources out there(including the scammers and peddlers out there). They believe they are right and discourage PROVING ALL THINGS. I encourage and advise people to learn. Educate yourself. And don’t let others tell you “how it is”, unless you have proven for a fact that they are speaking the truth, and if you don’t it’s your own fault that you find yourself in trouble later down the road. We mustn’t blindly believe what the internet says. But we do have to do the research and prove it out.
Submit a cpn on a mortgage application that asks for a ssn. No written law against that act, but you just committed mortgage fraud.
I gave you an example that pierced your position.
Can you give me one that upholds it?
Under what circumstance could you use a cpn without breaking the law?
Answer: The FACT that there is NO LAW AGAINST THEM.
If you can show us a law that is FOR THEM, or against them, then it would be illegal.
If there is NO LAW, then there is no governance to that action, thus no authority for you , me nor anybody to say you can’t do it, unless you consent by contract that doing so will bring civil charges on you. It is all about breaking the agreement with the SS(Social security). IT is not LAW. Show me a law against , and I’ll show you a law that governs it.
Sure, no problem:
18 U.S.C. § § 1001, 1010 (HUD and Federal Housing Administration Transactions), 1014 (Loan and credit applications generally), 1028 (Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents), 1341 (Frauds and swindles by Mail), 1342 (Fictitious name or address), 1343 (Fraud by wire), 1344 (Bank Fraud) and finally 42 U.S.C. § 408(a) (false social security number).
Now, do you want to answer my question and give an example where it is “not unlawful” or “not illegal” or “legal” to use a CPN? Just a scenario will do…
Hi, I saw in your comments above that someone asked for information for a credit repair company…may I have that information as well? I will soon also contact your company for your services but I definitely need to begin repair. Thank you!
Looking to acquire your service and also the services of credit repair. Please email me information pertaining to these matters.
Thanks for your great post.
WELL I’M SORRY TO BUST YOUR BUBBLE ROBERT BUT YOU ARE SO FAR FROM WRONG AND I CAN PROVE IT, I WILL NOT GO INTO DETAIL AS WITH DETAILS OF ANY CASE BUT I WILL TELL YOU AS A SPECIALIST IN [EDIT] WE SEE CPNS USED EVERYDAY , YOU CANT EVER GET LEGALLY ISSUED A NEW SSN NOT EVEN IN [EDIT] SO THE ALTERNATIVE TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE IS USE OF A CPN, A EIN IS SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, THERE IS NO LAW THAT EVEN REQUIRES ONE TO HAVE A SSN BUT ONCE ISSUED IT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE
No apology necessary as my bubble remains intact. I have no problem engaging in this debate. However, nothing you’ve said supports the proposition that CPNs are legal (let alone contradicts the information above that concludes they are not legal). The positions maintained by proponents of CPNs are logically infirm. You could take those CPN arguments and apply them to anything. For example: It is not illegal to own a gun. It is not illegal to walk into a bank. It is not illegal to make a withdrawal from a bank. It is not illegal to leave the bank and get into a car and drive away. However, when you take that gun, point it in a bank teller’s face and say give me the money and then drive away… you just committed bank robbery.
I don’t doubt that you can get another tax number. I don’t doubt that you can possess it. Here’s where ALL proponents of CPNs miss the point:
The second you place that number in a spot designated for a Social Security Number on a loan application, you just committed fraud.
So, to the extent CPNs are “legal,” they are useless. To the extent CPNs are useful, they are illegal.
Your last post has federal in every other word it is very clear that a cpn can not be used for anything federal, not housing not loans that are federally insured not irs none of anything that is federal, but show me a law where it says using a file segregation number aka cpn is illegal
I mean no disrespect when I say you’re bringing nothing new to the table. We’ve had this discussion many, many times (see above). I have provided the law (see above). I have asked people to provide a “legal use” for CPNs (see above). No one has yet to provide one (see above).
im looking at websites advertising the cpns that have been online and in business for 11 years in same location, why is our federal government allowing such illegal businesses better yet why is google advertising such on the top of the search engine list
It is clear you are frustrated with the facts, but that does not change them. A government’s failure to prosecute is not tantamount to a government’s approval. Otherwise, your position would hold that all activity is legal unless prosecuted. Although I’ve used this analogy at least 5 times (it is repeated because people skip over it or otherwise ignore it), is it legal to rob a bank, so long as you do not get caught? As a more practical perspective, the federal government has bigger fish to fry. On that note, I notice you clicked away from our website on this link: ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1999/10/credit-identity-defendants-settle-ftc-charges Thereafter, you came back and posted this comment. Was the link from the Federal Trade Commission’s website referencing charges brought by the Department of Justice for file segregation not enough for you?
As for your Google inquiry, it is not the province of Google to police illegal activity. I would hope you would agree, as freedom of speech deserves better. So that if you’re begging for a partnership between Google and the Federal Government, you might want to be careful what you wish for (see the PRISM program for example).
I’m not disbarring anyone’s opinion of the matter, but I am concerned about what is factual. Understanding that we are only required to give our SSN on government related documents says a lot. As you said it doesn’t make it right to do something like create a new identity, but what about the high profile or over protective nature for our SSN in credit only! The ones that have the motivation to enhance their credit without dismissing the laws, should they throw away what they have worked for. EIN numbers that are gathered for the purposes of business, are they committing fraud if said application only asks for SSN, but uses the EIN number because it relates to non governmental documents? I want to make sure I have it correct as I have an EIN as a estate holder.
It is quite simple. If an application asks for a social security number, you must put a social security number [CORRECTION: not “a” social security number, but your social security number]. If you have any doubts as to our position, please note that those that disagree with us also disagree with the Department of Justice:
Actors have been using cpn for years, and also public officials that is in office. I know one personally that’s using cpn as we speak, he said it helps them from identity theft, he said that the social should be used for anything that has to do with your finances ,not the things you buy from creditors.
I overlooked this comment. Sorry for the late reply. I’ve never understood this argument; if you can use the second number to protect your identity, why can’t you use the first number to protect your identity. Or, stated backwards, if you’re subject to identity theft with your first number, why aren’t you subject to identity theft on your second number? How is a “CPN” protection… at all?
I was “on the fence” until i read this! This is enough proof for me!
Wait, my post wasn’t good enough? 🙂 Thanks for the link!
Elizabeth, although this is a very serious topic, I couldn’t stop laughing at your comment (re: drops mic).
The sad part is that despite our years of singing the same song, and after the link you just posted, there will still be people on our site telling us that CPNs are okay.
This is what makes a market! Great stuff on here and I even learned a few things. I believe Although you were correct from the start, I think what most people were challenging was not the validity of what you were saying. I believe everyone on here somewhere in the corner of their mind or hearts felt like or even down right knew a CPN is no no with the GOV. However felt the need to challenge your position that the law was clearly stated . Which it is not (which I believe was your motivation for starting this post) and that is why we don’t see more arrest on this matter. The truth is CPN is like Stealing cable or downloading music in the early 90s. Instead of a few arrest and media hype about outrageous jail time that these people face but will not serve, the government should denounce this publicly not in small pockets and hard to find literature, because people are paying good money that they could be using to clean up their debts to obtain and build these new credit files which are as we all know ILLEGAL not just wrong. The truth is the American system is built on loophole not clarity. Then there’s the readers who are upset people are escaping their debts. What debts the ones from bank who create the money from the paper you sign and get 50 times leverage from you deposit pay you .001% interest and charge you 24%, crash and burn and take taxpayer money to give themselves millions in bonuses. Trust me we could all get new CPNs the banks will be OK. I wish it was leagal to screw the banks take their money and run but a CPN is not the answer. As it has been clearly stated. So can folks just stop fighting it and move on. You can give someone a new file but with the same habits and lack of understanding of how to use credit they will be back in credit trouble sooner than you think . You don’t just need a 780 score you need a 780 mindset.
Robert I think you are incorrect in implying that creating a “string” of numbers to present as a link to your living track record of credit worthiness is illegal. Sure you’ve posted link after link of “stories” that are somehow connected to “synthetic identity” crime but all stories have a more sinister background. The people that were arrested in those stories were either stealing children’s social security numbers to create a “CPN” or were doing large scale credit card fraud when creating these identities. Create an identity, start a credit card account, burn it, repeat. You have shown absolutely no evidence that a person living in the United States of America can’t create a credit history using a different number to present to the public.
You keep stating show me the law where the government says a CPN is legal, well let me ask you, show me a law where the government says you can’t create ulterior credit profile numbers to represent your credit worthiness. We all understand that “legally” there is no such thing as a “CPN” in any government laws but I think you are being a bit obnoxious when you keep throwing that out there because I think we all understand that whether we call it a “CPN” or NNN or blah blah number, the government has no law from blocking a citizen’s right to create a “string” of numbers they represent as their track record of credit worthiness.
Furthermore when you fill out a credit card application, it does not state, please use the social security number assigned to you by the United States government. It simply reads Social Security # etc. What is a Social Security number? To many it could mean whatever they want.
I think you’re blowing a lot of hot air and no actual facts. I’m not a “CPN” user, but nothing was proven here and no law was mentioned stating a person can’t use a different number.
I did show the law that prohibits it.
You (and everyone else) failed to show the law that permits it.
Analogies (flawed or otherwise) cannot change the proceeding facts.
If you’re not a CPN user, none of this matters, right?
It is conceivable that those tenaciously clinging to the “legality” of CPNs will eventually be screaming behind bars that everyone else in the world is wrong.
Please don’t shoot the messenger… I’m trying to help, however unflattering that help may appear.
I have had a CPN for over 8 years. It has my SS attached as well as my EIN, Business trade lines (real not borrowed) and all my business information and personal info included in it. I use it for equipment financing and bulk fuel purchases for my trucking company (400 truck fleet). My CPA set it up for the corporation to keep me from being a personal guarantor on my business transactions. It still allows my trade lines to verify who I am and my personal credit but like I said only my company is liable for payment. However it does not remove me from being responsible for the operation of my company. So a CPN is REAL its just how its used that can be illegal. So if your not trying to dupe the credit companies and defraud the US government then it can be a useful tool.
Hey Joe, while what you said is accurate, please don’t confuse “CPN” with legitimate business EINs. You did what most people do, and its perfectly legal to do what you did (I assume, because I don’t know all the details). Nevertheless, a CPN is a secondary social, not a separate business tax identification number. Thanks for your feedback!
I fell in like females with Robert! Haha he’s so political in his speech he reassures you how wrong you are with etiquette. I love it. I love the articles and the comments particularly the reply to CipherD. Thanks for this information this is vital for the public to know.
The only thing that is Legal, is having an actual business, that keeps your personal separate from your business liabilities. That is why you can open a bank account “legally” with an EIN number issued directly from the IRS for your business. Which you can be issued a 9 digit number from Dun and Bradstreet for credit building purposes on your business which is perfectly legal if it wasn’t then you would be required to provided your SSN when opening a business account which it is not required. Now if you requested a credit card then a bank would ask for your social because the card would have to have an owner that would be not just the business but the card holder….which would make the card at that point a “joint account” meaning bothing your business credit and personal must both meet credit regulations in order to be issued a unsecured line. “I call this topic a grey area” I believe the transparency is not quite where it needs to be to address this topic in black and white.
Right on, Mark. Thanks for your thoughts!
SCNs do exist. I know quite a few people utilizing them as we speak from credit cards to auto loans. Now rather or not they are illegal, I don’t know. However, I know for a fact these numbers exist and work!
We completely agree with you.
So far in the articles listed it’s the people selling the cpn being caught I’m just curious what happens to the buyers ? Are they responsible by being miss lead by these companies?
It’s a great question. I suppose that would be up to the prosecutors in those cases. If they view the buyers as victims, I doubt it. If they could prove the buyers knew what they were doing was wrong, then perhaps they’d go after them. I haven’t seen any releases from FTC or other government departments or agencies in which the individuals were prosecuted (but, then again, I haven’t read everything out there). I imagine that if the buyers were in default, they’re going to have some issues in the future.
robert i just read this article and when it comes to plain common sense i would think that people in government, celebrities and other high profile individuals have to have an alternative way of protecting themselves from identity theft so if you can give some insight as to what/how this is done for those individuals. i mean i think we read to deep into things just plain ol common sense is all thats needed sometimes. enlighten me a bit cause i know those people HAVE to protect themselves
Hey Jason! Good question. So, as a threshold matter, there’s no such thing as protection when it comes to this stuff. At the end of the day, if someone wants your personal information (these days), they’re going to get it. Hillary Clinton emails, for example. Cloudflare’s recent custom data leaks, is another example. And, how about the most damaging of all… the government leaks: The Office of Personel Management, that handles information MUCH more important than a crapy actress – like Counterintelligence Agents stationed around the world – leaked millions of individual’s private information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach I happened to be one of those individuals, so I know first hand. So, the idea of applying for another number for protection is not a real one in the grand scheme of things. This is usually just a selling point for those who are pushing CPNs. “Celebrities do it… you can, too!” You know? Think about this… why would your social security number be subject to identity theft, but not your CPN?
Now, if you’re actually a victim of identity theft, there are solutions for that. First, it’s a crime. So, in this case, the “celebrity” argument is like saying “I don’t want my house to get broken into, so I’m going to get another house.” That’s not the solution. The solution taking reasonable precautions (such as not buying things overseas, etc.) and calling the cops when a crime is committed against you (like identity theft).
As far as personal protections, there are solutions for that, too. Suppose you have a stalker or something. In that case, you can get a protective order, which can include a judicially permitted REPLACEMENT social security card (you don’t get two, but you can replace it for legally approved protection). But, that’s a different story than a CPN.
I am kind rambling here, so if I didn’t answer your question, please let me know and we can continue to discuss. Thanks!
Did you really cite Wikipedia? I was on your side until I just read that.. SMH 😂😂
What do you mean?
Cpn are legal people just don’t understand law and don’t know the difference between public and private citizens use them as a public citizen is not wise that all
Title 5, Section 7 of
Publication Law 93-579 of Government Organization and Employees
Act: (a) (1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or Local
Government Agency to deny any individual any right, benefit, or
privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to
disclose his or hers Social Security Account Number. What this means is
Federal Law protects those who do not wish to disclose their personal
information (SS#) except where required to do so. Disclosure of your social
security number is only required when dealing with the IRS, your employer, or
when applying for a federally insured mortgage.
Hey Defrat. Thanks for the input. Although this has been a contention comment section, I want to open the floor here… please work with me and getting me to understand what you’d saying. It seems to me the publication you’ve cited says “You don’t have to disclosure your social security number to certain people under certain conditions.” But, it does not say “…therefore, you can create a new number in those circumstances.” Suppose someone goes in to get a mortgage and the bank asks for a social security number and the borrower says “I don’t have to give it to you because law X says Y.” They bank will not say “That’s cool, do you have any other number I can use?” They bank is going to say “Okay, next in line?!” Your thoughts?
The Privacy Act of 1974 regulations, Title 28 section 16.53 does a pretty good job of describing what the Social Security number, as well as other personal information, was intended to be used for. I would make it a point to be familiar with this entire segment of U.S. Law. There is so much information and misinformation on the internet. It has been my experience that usually when there’s this much mixed information about a particular topic, especially what’s legal and what’s illegal about it, It’s most likely a taboo, but is likely a loophole that most corporations will try to sway you from until the loophole has been officially closed. I have been going over this law referencing Black’s dictionary and help from relevant friends, and I have not found anything that says CPNs or SCNs are illegal. I have, however, found actual law that does suggest that by today’s standards, our Social Security numbers are being used for purposes far beyond the bounds of their original and still standing LEGAL purposes. They were only intended to be used for Tax purposes and for Social Security related matters. Not to be used as tracking for credit purposes, background checks, or any consumer related subject matter. I will say that I have personally seen them used with fruitful results, and no legal trouble. Do your homework, because there are many OPINIONS but the law is factual.
Awesome comment, Bobby! Thanks. I agreed with so much of it. In fact, I didn’t disagree with anything, in particular, but I did disagree with one thing, indirectly. We’ve covered this argument many times in this comment section: “The law doesn’t say it is illegal.” That’s because CPNs are fictitious creations, based on nothing. Call it a “Buggle-Bag-Rack” or a “Spacky-Doo-Diddle.” There’s nothing in the law making those “illegal.” Therefore, they’re legal right? No. If a credit application asks for a “Social Security Number” and you provide something other than a “Social Security Number,” you’ve just committed bank fraud, which is illegal. In fact, I doubt prosecutors would even mention “CPN” in the criminal complaint. They’d just say bank fraud (or whatever the crime ends up being). Here’s a few examples:
In fact, a Special Agent-in-Charge of the Social Security Administration (SSA) Office of the Inspector General’s (OIG) Dallas Field Division (FD) said:
Again, I appreciate your comment and I actually agree with you that SSNs are out of control. It’s a horrible system that sprouted up and wrapped itself around the credit and financial world, inappropriately.
I see your points there, and they seem valid. There is something I was wondering, however, about that hypothetical example you use with the mortgage banker. According to the legislation Defrat cited, it is not only illegal for a person to be required to provide their SSN (save for certain legally specified circumstances) but it is also illegal for a person to be denied a “right”, “benefit” or “privilege” provided by law for that person’s refusal to provide their SSN.
As such, going back to your example of the mortgage banker turning away the person applying for a mortgage who refuses to give him his social, would the mortgage banker not be doing just that i.e refusing a benefit or privilege due simply to the consumer’s refusal to provide him his social?
I do see your point that the use of an alternative number is not explicitly approved of by that law. But, if a person asserts his legal right not to disclose his SSN and can not be penalized for doing such, what other alternative would there be? Just wondering.
That law that everyone cites, they rely on it in pursuit of their interest to their own peril. The law prohibits the GOVERNMENT from denying you any right, privilege, etc., not a private company (like a bank).
You’re more than welcomed to refuse to give a bank your social security number and they are welcomed refuse to accept your application.
In addition, when a bank asks for your social security number, you are NOT welcomed to give them anything other than your social security number. You have not right, benefit, or privilege under the law to provide something other than what the bank asks.
If you lie on a loan application, you have committed a crime.
The premise of Robert’s argument is that CPN’s are not legal and they are not illegal. Another premise of his article is that it is risky to use them, even under dire circumstances. The facts here don’t really matter — because when you see it from the top of the pyramid, it’s a grey zone. How CPN’s are actually registered somewhat remains a mystery to me, but the truth is, they are neither legal or illegal, and as with anything, how you use a saw, a hatchet, a hammer, or a CPN, there can be issues – and even more-so with cpn’s. Maybe we need to start to worry about our “government” going 20 trillion in debt and funding un-necessary wars before worrying about someone who’s at the bottom of the barrel trying to start over using a CPN. Maybe, the whole system is flawed and needs a mass-reset. Not everyone is born into an affluent home with good parenting and training from the get-go. Maybe some people need to press a reset button in their life without our corrupt government, filled with corrupt, lying politicians trying to fill our jail cells with someone trying to make ends meet. Maybe for some, the choices are down to 0 and honesty lands you being homeless. I know it’s hard to imagine that life for some, maybe even the author of this article – but before you throw around these pathetic, man-made ideological laws which are not refined in the least, perhaps it’s a good idea to take a good look inward and ask yourself the purpose of life and realize that for some, it’s worth the risk. And maybe people deserve a second chance in life and even a third. The “law” is not my standard at all, it’s a human fairytail that’s landed our government in wars and debt and death and disease and poverty and global warming and it’s so sad to see these lawyer-status people gripping so tightly to the law like it’s their life. They that do do not know true freedom or personal choice – they live trapped in their comfortable boxes like animals in a cage. I feel for those who are struggling – I feel for those who are hurting and I feel for those who need a CPN to get their life back together. Fuck the government and their lies, fuck the world and their greed. Fuck the system which is flawed, — bless freedom, responsibility, love, a second chance at life – even if it’s risky. Hell, I took the risk and it paid off. Fuck lawyers too for being petty assholes. To the greedy, lying government: choke on your bills and debt and to the rest, you’re weak and pathetic. Wake up to yourselves. Go out for a hard-ass run and realize that life is infinite. You can do whatever you want if you truly believe. The modern construct holds people back in their hearts and minds, thus the depression in modern-day jobs, thus the adhd ridden children. Thus the GMO’s and the pathetic infrsutructure humanity calls “normal”. I’m part of the 1 percent that’s ‘abnormal’, but yet I can out-think anyone. Hell, I’d make the best of the best lawyers if I had the schooling right now, but it’s not my passion. It’s easy to dismiss whole arguments and premises based on one fact and act the hero, but at the end of the day, people need answers, not laws. Laws don’t change people. Love and understanding do.
🙂 I loved our post. I agree with a great deal of it, ideologically (save for some clear contradictions, such as condemning greed at the same time as advocating it). Here’s the problem – and I think I said this somewhere on this comment section – we might disagree with the entire system and we might be right, but… we’d be arguing with a jail cell if you take that to the extreme. Another point I’ve made in the past is this… look at your post! You have a brain, clearly. Use it. Meaning, if someone is smart enough to figure out the CPN craziness, they are absolutely smart enough to navigate what’s left of our free market.
YES!!….I LOVE YOU KATARA, YOU FEEL EXACTLY HOW I DO. THANKS FOR BRINGING SUNSHINE&LIGHT, AND A FRESH PERSPECTIVE. AMONGST THIS MORBID CLOUD ROBERT IS SETTING OVER THIS WHOLE SITUATION. REFRESHING TO KNOW GENUINE PEOPLE STILL EXIST OUT THERE IN THE WORLD….TAKE CARE!!!
Catalina, are you suggesting that you agree with Katara whose point is: “Since other people are bad, I can be bad too.” If so, we’re too far off philosophically to discuss CPNs. Nevertheless, I have proven that CPNs are illegal. So, if your comfortable breaking the law for the reason that other people break the law, there’s nothing left to discuss, unfortunately. I have done my part to help people not hurt themselves.
We all have blinders, sometimes. But, CPNs are not a matters of perspective. They’re just illegal. I am telling the truth, which is usually is received with appreciation. Yet, I’m the bad guy? I don’t expect a thank you, but I am not convinced I deserved condemnation.
My question is simple. Will i be thrown in jail for using a cpn that was purchased through one of these services online? I do not care if it is illegal if no one is being prosecuted. I’m a regular middle class guy, and don’t plan on using to make mass amounts of money or anything. Qualify for a house, a car.. normal things. Are people regularly brought into civil court for using cpn’s. Also u say that u are saving people time and letting then know to stay away from cpn, but how will it backfire?
Well, I have two versions of an answer for your question: “I don’t know.” and “That’s irrelevant.” Let me explain:
I don’t know:
I think your point is a good one, State or Federal prosecutors are unlikely to go after a guy like you, on an individual basis. However, you could get caught one of the many sweeps that they do (a sweep is when agencies try to justify their budgets and aggressively go after everyone and anyone, where even “middle class guy[s who] don’t plan on using to make mass amounts of money or anything” like yourself may be caught in the net). So, I’d say the risk is not worth the reward, to the extent there is a reward in the first place. Which brings me to my second point.
CPNs are perishable; they don’t last. They will eventually (and almost certainly) get merged with your Social Security Number. When this happens, a lot of consequences could occur. For example, any debt/credit you did receive could be re-called and be immediately due and payable. Your credit will be back where you started. You will have invested time, money and energy into a short-lived scheme, which is illogical compared to spending $600 bucks (or so) on credit repair and then adding tradelines. Take a few months and a few hundred bucks and do it right.
Robert you are very mis informed please do more research before bashing something so many are living good lives off of.
I am looking out for other people’s interest and helping them avoid legal harm. I don’t think its fair for you to suggest that I am bashing anyone. 🙁
As you see, I publish all comments, so please feel free to update all of us on information you may have which we may not. Thanks!
I personally know someone that is using “file segregation” tactics to get credit for years. She has not used a cpn or credit repair service, she has been doing it for 20 years. She bought a house with it. I know of a dozen names and various addresses. She has PO boxes, and store front mail boxes all over town. I want to turn her in because she is involved in an elder abuse situation right now, as the abuser. So who would I turn this information over to that would not just ignore it?
Well, file segregation and abuse are two different things. For abuse, you should call the State’s department of children and families. In fact, in most states, it might be a crime to NOT report known instances of abuse. You sound like you know a lot about this person (if you’ve seen multiple PO Boxes in their credit report), so – from human to human – I’d make sure you’re not being spiteful for personal reasons, but focus only on the public good of your decisions.
After researching, and trying to find out the risk vs reward of attempting the use of a “cpn” just to use the standardized vernacular. This is what I am thinking of doing:
In my younger years, I was neglectful to my bills, debts and could care less about my credit, along with suffering a back injury that put me out of work for some time, while i fought an insurance company to cover the surgery needed. So to say my credit is trash is an understatement.
Now i have been making small steps in repayment but the issue I am having is anything I have to finance or need i get at 24% interest plus because of my bad choices. which means I have to have the cash upfront for all purchases including a vehicle for work or accept being bent over for my earlier poor choices, than I am stuck paying insane rates, which illogically makes me dread paying them even more.
I attempt to live within my means and have savings set aside for emergencies, but with poor credit that makes this option difficult, because emergencies just plain arise, and I do not make enough to cover everything in my job. *long term I should get better education and a better job.
So would I be so wrong if I were to purchase a “cpn” and utilize the fresh credit -given I can find one that is not a stolen identity. In order to get financing options that allow me to pay off the debts tied to my ssn/credit file?
If I can stop paying such high rates, in theory I could pay of my debts quicker and save more, leaving more money in my accounts? all while ensuring that I am clearing up and cleaning all the negatives on my ssn? then once the debts are cleared then abandoning the “cpn” will all of its lines of credit paid off?
Is that such a bad idea, even if it is gray area?
Yes,it is a bad idea.
No, it’s not a grey are; you can absolutely (like others before you) go to jail for CPNs.
In 8 years, I have never seen a credit report which was unsalvageable.
100% you’d be better off with credit repair, debt settlement and negotiation and then tradelines.
I heard they aren’t so bad and can really give others a 2nd chance at credit
From who? Check with federal prosecutors.
SB 497 pertains to scholarships and financial aid not CPN
Rae, you’re correct. That wasn’t a real law. If you review the article, you’ll see that the point was being made that all CPN information is not real.